BEGOTTEN RESPONSES,…and other questions and thoughts,…

Posted: December 1, 2012 in Uncategorized

Woody Stone says:

Good question.  I have pondered this situation for many years.  This is a very extensive subject I have done a lot of writing on, and the answers I have discovered are not at all in line with most normal ‘religious’ Christian thought and belief.  It is not possible (in a simple “Reply”) to cover all the territory involved in answering your question, but just as a way of initiating a conversation (which may become ‘hairy’, and I won’t endlessly argue about concepts), I will say that it DOES involve “necessary evil”.  God’s main object is to build Godly Character into us with our cooperation; but just as we can not correctly define Light unless we have Darkness to compare it with, we can not correctly define and apply Righteousness without sin to compare it with.

Does this mean God created sin?  No, but he did create nature, and nature (the mental/physical realm) does not operate within the realm of spiritual character.  Nature operates in the realm, and by the principles of, Carnality.  Our task, as humans, is to use God’s spiritual principles to overcome the impulses and forces of sinful, emotion-driven carnality.

No “religion” on earth today has all the Truth [not even Christian “religion”… controversial, I know, but you have to know that Christian “religion” is much different from true Christianity), but most every religion has at least some fragment of Truth (thus, the “hairy” part – which includes some of the elements of ‘evolution’, ‘reincarnation’, ‘generational curses’, and many other things formal Christianity may or may not approve of or incorporate]…  Just being honest with you…  I believe the Holy Spirit is TRYING to impart God’s Truth to all people (all religions, cultures, ethnicities, etc.), but because of our carnality, self-centeredness, and other things that separate us from Him and each other, He is only able to get us to understand small amounts of actual Truth (which over time usually gets diluted and trivialized).

If you would like, we can continue this conversation on any subject you prefer; but I prefer a narrow perspective at any particular time.  It is not possible to cover everything at one time.

  • johnedoe

    HEY WOODY,…..great to hear from you again! i have quickly extended and lightly edited this writing and I am now going to post the “copied” end section from my writing now,…..here ya go,….I have more thoughts on what i am “pasting” here now, but my time is lilmited, as well as “has been limited” lately,……give it a read,…..here it is,………………..

    Okay, this is now the day after thanksgiving. I write this from nashville, tennessee….and this is the beginning of an inclusion, and belated follow up to this question which I originally posed some time back,…..I am not going to write much now. but,…try this one on for size,….

    so,…God created satan, correct? my thinking at this point is based on a slightly different view than many of us have,….which is,….was satan also God’s “son???” although he (satan) chose to be the “bad son???????”,……Does God destroy what He creates??? (if so, example please) Although God can do anything, can he “undo” anything which is a part of Himself,…or, “can” He destroy what He creates????…does this (spiritual energy) destruction go against His very nature itself?????…(God is SPIRIT),…I don’t mean destroying the earth, I mean destroying the energy or the “spirit” which is a part of Himself???????,….(have you ever read about a demon being destroyed???????)…And finally,….for now anyway,….does God, as a “creator”,as “thee creator”,…as a (loving) “father”, or otherwise,…..I ask, does God,…still love satan???????????

    I very much believe that the answer to my question may very well be,…”YES”,…….(I think that we are, or may be, seeing another, although “unpopular” example of how “very completely and totally loving” that the God of everything, really is)……ponder this,…………toksoon,……john e doe

    • Hi Johnny.  I do think God can and will destroy some of the things he created (or created through a process He set in motion: the human-creation process, etc.).  I believe the Bible makes clear that God Loves man and would rather DESTROY souls than sentence them to an eternity is the ‘Lake of Fire’.  Nowhere in the Bible does it say that people will suffer an eternity of torture.  The “Devil” will, but the people unworthy of LIFE will simply be destroyed.

      As for the thing about “son-ship”.  God has only one “begotten” son, that was (is) Jesus.  Jesus was begotten in the Spirit realm.  Lucifer was initially created [and then ‘evolved’ (developed)] in the mental/physical realm.  Lucifer (Satan) is not a spiritual being, he is a mental being – and that is the only place he has influence.

      To open up another “can of worms”; Lucifer and Eve were both made to operate in the same realm (mental).  Eve was created to replace Lucifer as God’s direct righteous link to mankind through Adam who was initially created (and still operates) in the Spirit realm.  They all became aspects of humanity when they moved out of the “Garden of Eden” (came into the realm where humans now live).  The creation of Eve upset Lucifer, and through his unwillingness to yield to God’s plan he became Satan: the great deceiver.  This is only part of something I have been working on, piece by piece, for many years, and one of these days I will have it completed on paper.

    • I LLLLLLLLOOOVVVVVVVVEE COMMENTS LIKE THIS ONE!!!!!,………why do you think it is that people don’t think about the fact (biblicaly) that adam lived in the “normal” world before god created the garden of eden and “placed” adam in it????? god “haad looked” for a helper (woman????) to be good for him, but, did not, could not find one??????? (you like that part there, huh??????,……so,……ttttttthhhhhhennnnnn,….god created eve to be a mate (helper) to be good for him.

      adam was “lonely” in the garden,…correct?????,…..

      he “missed” something??????? i usually miss something or someone because i had known them. does that make sense???? so, based on that,….why was adam lonely?????,………heh heh heh????

      i write all of this with a lighthearted fun loving way. i “do not mean” mean fun!!!! i mean, thoughtful fun! there are so many basic pieces in genesis alone to help build the borders of the puzzle (mystery) fo the simple (yet in depth) loving, hopeful. joyous message of the bible,……….but,…too many times, these little “first things” get overlooked and “undervalued”…..

    • and woody,…you know that i love your writings,…and i also know that i have been away for quite a while,…now, i will be back on blogworld for a while,…more frequently,………..i like the fact that you give a very intense, complete, thorough, and legimate shot at answering my “ponderments” here. i say that because so many believers won’t “get their feet wet” in these waters. that is fine with me. i do not mean to appear to be knockin someone down. the questions that i ask, are questions which i myself have pondered for years, with many of these questions being answered as i searched,…………MANY OTHER HUMANS HAVE THE SAME QUESTIONS WHICH I ASK,…..SO,….IF YOU AND I COMMUNICATE AS WE DO, AS TWO HUMANS WHO HAVE NEVER MET, BUT, AS WE RESPECT ONE ANOTHER AS WE DO,…PERHAPS PTHERS MAY FIND SOMETHING IN WHAT WE “SHARE” WITH ONE ANOTHER. i really kinda dig that!!! so, i just throw what’s on my mind right out in the open!!!! this is blogland in the real world,…………….good stuff right there, buddy!!!! ain’t life great,..when you look at it just “right?????”,…..

      toksoon, woody,………thanks, man!

good mornin woody,……one other thought before i start my day. spending today with my mother. regaining much lost time. i honestly say that i almost never thought this day would come. spent yesterday with her too. funny how life works,…….anyway,…the word “begotten????” is the definition of this word rock solid??? does begotten, perhaps, mean,…..born of man??????? in other words, god’s son,…born of man,………….i’d like to hear your thoughts,…….toksoon,………….

Woody Stone

November 30, 2012 at 3:43 p11

Good question Johnny.  “Begotten” is an earthly word associated with sex.  Of course, we can also think of begotten as being a spiritual and/or mental realm word, such as when someone plants the seed of an idea in someone ease’s spirit or mind.  When they accept that idea and begin to incorporate it into the way they live their life, it ‘could’ be inferred that that idea was “begotten” by the one who planted it.  God’s Spirit (The Word) planted His Spirit into the life giving womb of Mary.  It took on physical form through the words all the Prophets who prophesied about the Messiah’s coming and His life (which Mary believed with all her heart).  The Spirit of Jesus took on fleshly form through that Spirit and Word, and was born into the world.  But that’s not the end of the story.  Since Jesus was fully man, he could have been corrupted in the early years of his earthly visit had it not been for Joseph and Mary’s dedication to raising him in accordance with God’s written word.

That is a very quick answer, but maybe it will add a little information you can work with or use to ask another question.  God bless.

johnedoe

November 30, 2012 at 3:43 p11

i dig your responses,……remember, my basis for what i brought up earlier was about how deep god’s love and forgiveness runs,……..thus,….letting satan live because of his love for him,….i say this as a light reflection of his love for us as the sinners which we are,…..freewill frees us,…but, it frees us to make choices,….it is our choices which affect us,….in a “god” or “bad” way,………….satan’s whispers and influences “taint and confuse” our decisions,………jesus forgiveness is all encompasing,……..thus, because of jesus’ blood payment,….we,…..are,…..free……………………i mean every human of every religion, color, creed, etc….etc,……..etc,…………some of us may not know jesus name,…..but he knows all of us,………FOR GOD SO LOVED “THE WORLD” (THE WORLD????????? EVERY SINGLE INDIVIDUAL FROM HITLER, TO GHANDI, TO GEORGE BUSH, TO CHILD MOLESTORS, TO PEOPLE WHO RUN HOMELESS SHELTERS, TO RAPISTS, TO CHARLIE SHEEN, TO MICHAEL JACKSON, TO JEFFERY DAHMER, TO,…….ME,……TO YOU,………EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US!!!!!! YES?????? WHETHER WE AGREE WITH WHAT THEY (ANY AND ALL OTHERS) BELIEVE OR NOT!!!!!!!!! 2000 YEARS AGO, FROM THE TIME OF THE DEATH ON THE CROSS AND THE RESURRECTION,…………..EVERYONE, EVERY ONE, ALL HUMANS HAVE BEEN FREED,….AND STILL ARE FREE!!!!!!,….. WE ARE TOLD THAT “MANY WILL BE LOST FOR LACK OF KNOWLEDGE”,…CORRECT?????? WHAT KNOWLEDGE?????? THE KNOWLEDGE THAT WE WERE ALL COMPLETELY FREED 2000 YEARS AGO,………TOTAL FREEDOM, TOTAL (GODLY) FORGIVENESS,…EQUALS,….PURE UNDENIABLE GODLY LOVE,……………………..) the death on the cross (BLOOD PAYMENT) paid everyones debt,….forever and ever, amen!!!!!!!,………did god love satan????? yes,……does God’s love die???? no. so, God still loves satan,…….yes or no???????,…….. when we can see how powerful and deep God’s love goes,…we, our “self” can and wiill “then” find a more powerful and deeper freedom as well,……………

OK,…..MORE LATER,……keep venting,…….oh,…i asked in an earlier post,…….have you ever read of a demon dying or being killed????????

toksoon,….thanks again,….keep sharing,…….i have a reason for all that i am asking,…..your comments help very much,….

churchbus71andetc

November 29, 2012 at 3:43 p11

An interesting premise. I think I agree that once God creates a living being He never destroys them. Satan was God’s favorite angel at one time so there is no doubt He loved Lucifer as he was called then. But God is a God of Justice and righteousness. When sin entered the picture then God had no choice but to condemn Satan for that sin and cast him out of heaven. I don’t believe that Satan was ever God’s son. The Hebrew name for God used in Genesis is Elohim. Meaning three in one which would be The Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I also think that there are a lot of things that we with our finite mind just cannot understand. Still it is a fascinating subject. God Bless Also thanx for stopping by my blog

Jane Sadek

November 30, 2012 at 3:43 p11 

It’s called choice.  God wants you to love Him.  If you only love Him because there is no other choice, then what kind of love would that be?  That’s the short answer,…

Thanks, Johnny, for the encouragement to speak freely.  It can be fun to play around with ideas once in a while, but I prefer to not venture very far from what is actually said in Scripture, or the meaning of the metaphors used.

First, you made a basic false assumption.  The Bible does not say that Adam was “lonely”, it says (Gen.2:18) he was “alone.”  Being alone, does not mean one is lonely and, as you implied, “miss something or someone” they had known before.  I am quite often along, but very seldom am I lonely.  In this text God is simply saying that Adam was alone (in his particular position in the spirit realm) and didn’t have anyone (in the mental realm) that could help him complete the task God had assigned to him {keeping the “Garden” [we might call it the “spiritual control room” (‘heaven’) of lower Creation] – which exists in the spirit realm and has a “shadow” (a lower dimensional likeness) in the physical realm}.

Lucifer, whom God spoke so highly of (later known as “Satan” and “serpent”), was in (and ruled) the mental realm that was associated with the pre-Adamic physical realm (Isa.14:12-20; Ezek.28:12-19).  Lucifer was superbly designed to rule in the mental/physical realm until God was ready to introduce humans into his Creation; then he was to take a subservient role to Adam and Eve.  Eve was created to be Adam’s “help meet” that Righteously connected him to the lower dimensions of Creation.  Lucifer, in his assigned duties, in his role as director of the physical realm at that time, was (and still is) ruled by carnality, and God needed an entity to replace him and be Adam’s Righteousness-based connection to the world, so he created Eve.  Lucifer didn’t like being “upstaged” so he rebelled and tried to take control of the situation (that was in his very nature).  Adam’s responsibility (and accountability) was to maintain his position of leadership, but, having not yet developed Godly Character, he succumbed to the temptations.  Etc., etc., etc.  This is a long story, but I think you get the idea that he was not “lonely”.

Yes, life is great.  I love to explore ideas.  I, also, hope others, like churchbus71, are listening and will join the conversation.

That’s enough for now.  I’ll catch you on the turn-around.

churchbus71andetc says

November 30, 2012 at 3:43 p11

Yes it is an interesting premise that you present. I’ve never heard of it before though I know there are many different thoughts about the pre-Adamic world. Such as the Gap Theory–etc. The problem I see with that is that there is no way to Biblically prove it. In Ez. it does state that satan was in the Garden but we know he was there but for what purpose? I’m not sure scripture clearly defines this. As for Adam–if God had not created Eve than His command to be “fruitful and multiply” wouldn’t have worked very well. There are many questions about Adam and Eve and the serpent in the Garden that I think are unanswered. My husband has been teaching Genesis in his Men’s Bible study for several months now and has discovered some interesting things that I’d never thought of before. Got me to thinking—How do you think Eve got Adam to eat the forbidden fruit? Did she disgiuse it in a fruit salad:) just joking—  but it is fascinating to try to put one’s self there to better understand what may have taken place. GodBless

johnedoe

November 30, 2012 at 3:43 p11  (Edit)

HI CHURCH BUS,…PONDER THIS,….GOD’S SPIRIT (VOICE) WHISPERS TO OUR CONSCIENCE,…SATANS SPIRIT (VOICE??????????????????) WHISPERS TO OUR (SINFUL) FLESH (IN OUR MINDS, NOT OUR CONSCIENCE),………….as for eve getting adam to eat the forbidden fruit?????? think as a human using some thoughts that you “may” have had yourself in your own life, and your answers will be found there,……for example,……..adam may have feared “loss” if he didn’t please eve????????????? (if momma ain’t happy, ain’t nobody happy!!!! you ever heard that one??????) now, as for adam’s “loss?????”,….. were adam and “woman” (she had no name till they were thrown from the garden (ponder why she “needed” a name when they left the garden??????) having sexual relations????? i believe we are told that they were,………. sexual desires and losses and or lack of sex can be a strong (and usually not good) motivator,……..ya think????? (i know that they effect me) or,…..he could have been afraid if he didn’t please her he would be lonely (again, loneliness can motivate people to make very bad and stupid choices),……… i could go on about this for a long time,…..but not now,…………………….i ask you, or anyone else, this question,…..”when satan was tempting eve, why didn’t adam tell satan to “shut the hell up???” (adam had dominion over all things in the garden, correct???) i believe that satan was not there physically or visibly!!!” (he didn’t become a snake or srepent or “whatever” until AFTER GOD CURSED HIM QUITE A WHILE “AFTER” THEY HAD EATEN THE FORBIDDEN FRUIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!),……….no “snake” ever tempted eve (woman),……..so much more,…..i’ll write more later,…….thanks so much,……toksoon,………..

churchbus71andetc says

December 1, 2012 at 3:43 p12  (Edit)

I was joking about the fruit salad–I know that the relations between men and women get complicated now that sin has entered the picture. i think the account in Genesis leaves a lot of questions but answers the basic one–why we are born with a sin nature separated from God. Whatever took place between Adam and Eve with regards to the forbidden fruit none the less they chose to disobey God and suffered greatly for it as we all have. But thanks be to God who made a way for our redemption and way that we to can “walk in the garden” so to speak and have communion with Him. God Bless

johnedoe

November 30, 2012 at 3:43 p11

KEEP VENTING,…..VENTING IS GOOD FOR US,………..more later,…………

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  1. Hi! I’m honored that you’re following my blog! You seem to have quite a following yourself so I’m looking forward to reding more of yours. I enjoy viewers comments so feel free to add on to any of mine.

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